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Post by youngtats on Jun 27, 2006 14:33:58 GMT
very true!! apparently the CCTV pictures will look like an episode from The Dukes of Hazzard! anyway, back to the tesco caper! what i don't understand most of all, and this must baffle everyone involved including richard kelly and thommo........ the members at ossett town football and social club are not thick. just as the governments over the last few decades seem to consider anyone without a hyphen between their two surnames as part of the great daily-star-reading unwashed only to get found out by the fact that, en masse, the public who vote are officially well above average intelligence. anybody who is involved with the football club as a member will not be thick, (have some decency before declaring war on the great roadsweeper N.B who may buck this suggestion, he has put as much work into the club as anyone over the last 15 years) so why then do the members seem disinterested in a move to dewsbury rams? just stop and ask yourselves that. the 'sunday night quiz club' argument is, frankly getting boring and overused, as the clubhouse site at ingfield would remain if the move was to go ahead so the 'sunday night orgy' would still be there. so why then? why do a large majority of members want to stay? more importantly i feel, is that if the majority of members want to stay then why is debate still active? the old adage of 'you can take a horse to water but can't make it drink' comes to mind. the members have heard the facts, considered their opinions and decided they don't want to go- is that not the end of it? i don't understand. let me be arrogant for one minute, yes little me(!)- i've seen the suggestions, i've heard all the facts from an hour phonecall with thommo, i've sat and buried at least 40 pints of bitter whilst solely discussing the subject over the past few months and let me tell you- i could have sold that idea so that a vote was passed for a move. that tells me, bigheaded or whatever it might be, that the attitude towards the members is that they would do as they were told - bad move where votes are concerned as people don't like being told what to do. i'd choose thommo as one of the very few people at the club who i would be happy to send anywhere in the world to represent the club and seek out potential investors, ideas and to blag ( a quality i admire)- after all the lucky git has managed to blag tickets for the world cup final!! thommo, on a personal note- i think you became too passionate about the move and lost your usual zing in terms of persuasion and banter to the point of a pushsy salesperson. pushy salespeople don't mean good salespeople and now the members of the club seem to me to have a barrier up at a potential move to the point of where they wish the whole issue would pack up and go home. the salesmen you see on documentaries who spend 6 hours in an old woman's home to sell her a stairlift and won't leave until she signs make disturbing viewing- people are offended and disgusted at the salesmen yet nobody ever thinks, "well, she is 93 she could actually do with one of those stairlifts anyway"- because it's pressure people don't like. without quoting my degree like a nob ex-student i can assure you that there is so much research to indicate then when a person is put under unneccessary immediate pressure to do something an "i just want to get out of here" trigger is pressed inside the brain. the more i hear about the move the more attractive it looks to me, but unfortunately the way it has been handled or "sold" to the members leaves alot to be desired and is, in my experience, out of character with thommo's usual diplomatic stance. it is for this reason that the pro-tesco lobby will be very fortunate to turn this one around. my personal advice, you need a new face to go with the idea. thommo, take a back seat and leave a new face to promote a move. the feeling i get is more of an "anti-thommo and kelly" stance at the club rather than an "anti-tesco" move and whilst there is this association present the move will never go ahead. have a ponder, it's better advice than you think from a cheeky ba**ard who just might know what he's talking about. chow sweeties !
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fiz
Local Park Dreamer
Posts: 35
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Post by fiz on Jun 27, 2006 18:16:34 GMT
young tats as a lot to say on the subject of the move and even states that hes coming round to the idea, maybe thats because after speaking with the salesman of Ossett hes actually got some facts. The members on the other hand haven't had this opportunity, sure thomo will talk the hind legs of a donkey given the chance when it comes to this subject among other things so why not have an open debate where the facts worries and concerns are provided for all to hear then and only then can a democratic vote take place. For a few privileged people to decide what happens to this club is also ridiculous if full membership isn't available then anyone who wishes to stand on sub comities IE juniors, promotions etc under the direction of a executive member should have the opportunity to give direction & advice back to the exec through this channel. The problem with some of the members is that their decisions and advice only gives the club detrimental and negative publicity, i had half a dozen people who were prepared to invest in some way or another in the club until recent publicity re match fixing was highlighted. they are also a little confused as to why any forward thinking organization would want their paltry sums of cash to survive when a multi national is prepared to stump up 4.5million which would keep the club solvent and able to move forward if invested correctly. In others words why be involved with a stagnant club? by the way so you dont think that i,m hinding behind a name i'm the fat guy who runs on the pitch with a bucket and sponge
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Post by harrylime on Jun 27, 2006 20:52:02 GMT
dont be too harsh on yourself John, youre not as fat as the physio who used to be at Hucknall town a few years ago
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Post by thomo on Jun 27, 2006 22:09:20 GMT
hey hold on a minute young tats before going all post graduate on me. The members have not been presented with anything. A final offer was received about 3 days before I was voted off. As far as being passionate about a move, I'm passionate about what I believe in which happens to be Ossett Town Football Club. I agree with your comment "you don't understand" I dislike your analogy about the elderly lady and the salesperson and think the term blag is more fitting to you than anyone I know at Ossett Town. As for tickets for the World cup our Chairman was informed of availability and one of the people who instigated the vote of no confidence received 2, Martin Voakes was offered an FA Cup Final ticket (subsequently refused when I only got 1) as I knew he was a Liverpool fan. None of this has been a result of a blag as you put it. It's just been me inviting others to enjoy opportunities that I couldn't unfortunately attend. You,in all honesty, know very little about the offers and options open to Ossett Town. The members remain uninformed NOT as a result of anything other than the new execs pratting about in calling an AGM. I think you're right about an anti thommo stance as you call it, I can live with it ....if it's for the right reasons... if it's based on factual opinion. Let's just quote your Father for example a member of the new exec, he openly admitted last Tuesday evening he voted me off because he was sick of finding things about Dewsbury in the papers. 1)All my comments to the papers have stated the members will decide once presented with the full facts 2) The EGM was nothing to do with Dewsbury Rams it was about a constitutional matter and an alleged closing of the books. The fact that our Club secretary altered minutes and chose not to record discussions from exec meetings also makes me passionate, passionate about having things done honestly. I said at the beginning of the EGM I expected to get voted off that's not an admission I thought I'd done anything wrong merely an acknowledgement that I was aware Martin Voakes had arranged a meeting with 12 others up at the club to whip up a frenzy which was a little too near the same time as I had confirmed we would possibly be able to keep the clubhouse at Ingfield if we sold to a developer. I have gone about this in a proper manner, letters remain unanswered because quite simply they can't be answered only insofar as there would have to be a clear admission that there are several misdemeanours at the club and several members don't care, you do the maths tats it doesn't take many to gain a majority if you misinform enough people who seem hell bent on enjoying their cosy little existence. Keep posting tats if you post enough you may come up with a credible story, one that can't be answered with ease!
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Post by richardkelly on Jun 28, 2006 15:54:13 GMT
Youngtats!
I for one don't believe all the members are thick but I do believe they have been manipulated and lied to by The Chairman, Martin Voakes and the others in their drinking group.
Telling people lies and half truths, creating unsubstantiated scare stores and make believe plans of developing Ingfield in short muddying the waters to such an extent that the members don't know who to believe or what the hell is going on has been their tactic from day one.
The only remedy for this is to have a full and open meeting where the FACTS can be laid out for each member to see.
Why will Graham Firth, Martin Voakes etc.. not allow this to happen?
What are they afraid of
The members have not been allowed the courtesy of a full presentation, there has not been a meeting or an AGM where this issue can be presented and discussed by the members so how can you or more to the point Martin Voakes state that the members don't want the move to happen, now his assumption that he speaks for the members is disrespectful.
Please don't come back with the old chestnut that Phill & I were keeping things from the members as I think that one has been disproved a number of times.
As Phil has stated the Exec were informed during and in between every monthly meeting as to the stage we were at with Tesco's and Dewsbury.
The final offer from Tesco was not confirmed in writing until three days before the EGM. The Exec would have been days from setting and AGM date and making a full presentation to the members for their consideration before a vote. In my opinion this is why a trumped up vote of no confidence was sold to the members by Martin Voakes & Co.
The way that this has been handled by Graham and Martin is laughable, in any other industry or organisation they would be fired for incompetence!
The right and proper way for this to be resolved is to be completely open book with the members and anyone else who has the best interests of the club at heart.
Stop the second guessing and stop speaking for people who haven’t been allowed to see the facts. Have an organised debate on the issue before quickly moving to a vote at another date.
If that were to happen and the members made a decision from an informed position I would be happy that things had been done as properly as they can be after all the innuendo and propaganda that’s been spewed by Martin Voakes.
If that vote is to stay then fine at least the members would be speaking for themselves and would have had the facts at hand, the time to digest those facts and consider the long term implications of moving or staying before casting a vote.
Just for the record youngtats I take offence at your analogy re salesman’s pushy tactics. I accept it was just probably ill thought out before you posted and that there was no insult intended.
Furthermore you state that there is an "anti Thomo-Kelly stance" can you explain this to me as I am unaware of anyone whom I have upset or had crossed words with. There is no-one I can think of whose toes have been stepped on and no-one that I have ignored or been discourteous to.
With the obvious exception of the 'cosy corner group' I have not had any disagreements or heated discussions with anyone else.
I would be interested to know where you got that idea from?
Its a mystery to me just how many people who know nothing about me have such strong opinions about what sort of person I am.
Yet not one single person asociated with Ossett Town has ever said anything derogatory about me face to face (ironicaly, with the exception of Phil Thompson).
Even when I have sought out certain people in an attempt to ascertain the truth they have flatly denied making accusation or saying anything negative about me.
It's a mystery
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Post by youngtats on Jun 28, 2006 19:24:31 GMT
point one!! in response what was said in an earlier post- i'm not 'gradually coming around to the idea' i've been informed of the move since it first became public and i've always thought that a move had positive aspects and good points- i personally just don't fancy it. nothing wrong with that is there? i mean i know cauliflower is good for me and that cigarettes are bad for me but i still smoke like a chimney and refuse to eat cauliflower. that's just what i prefer. i'd prefer the club to stay at ingfield and develop what is there. if that fails then sell the land to tesco in ten years time and attempt to find a ground to share. it's not like the land wouldn't hold it's value is it?!
secondly, if know one takes on board what i've said (as mr kelly points out that they will be not be given permission to provide a meeting in which to relay the facts) then stick with what you are doing- posting on this website which is read by no more than about 15 people on a regular basis - and crying about it. cos that's helping your cause isn't it? has it not dawned on you that if the members demanded to be provided with a presentation regarding the move that there would obviously be one? i don't hear the members wanting to be shown a presentation- that was your point was it not? why don't you ask a few members why they haven't demanded to see a presentation (though i was under the impression that thommo spoke for over an hour on the subject at the EGM but i could well be mistaken) ?
thirdly (!) - it isn't me who you have to convince.
the decision regarding ossett town is absolutely nothing to do with me as i'm not a member.............. exactly the same as you mr kelly.
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Post by youngtats on Jun 28, 2006 19:33:27 GMT
Q- what will sven goran erikkson do when he's beaten portugal on saturday night?
A- he'll put his pyjamas on, switch off the playstation and go to bed!!! ;D ;D ;D
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Post by youngtats on Jun 28, 2006 19:40:08 GMT
shame the club didn't apply for those world cup tickets you mentioned, a free draw for the club's supporters on the terraces would have been a nice idea to repay them for their support- nobody ever think of that? in fact, i'd like to see all the club's tickets for such as FA Cup finals etc to be raffled off the people who watch ossett town play. an idea for next year?
what about a free draw in the evening post,
1st Prize = two tickets for an ossett town home game 2nd Prize = two tickets for two ossett town home games !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
am i getting funnier with the jokes?
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Post by thomo on Jun 28, 2006 19:50:56 GMT
I spoke for an hour on the fact that the membership has never been closed by the members and Meg Coxhill has altered minutes. The move to Dewsbury was never mentioned as it was not allowed to be discussed. FA Cup Final tickets are not allowed to be raffled. I understand you're to send a letter of apology to Tim young tats unless thats just another rumour.
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Post by youngtats on Jun 28, 2006 20:06:07 GMT
rumour? i thought i said that to you last week. haven't got around to it yet, just for anyone wondering why- it's as, on reflection, read back two posts i'd made where i appear to blame tim for the state of junior football in the UK and concluded that it sounds like a personal dig on someone who i think doesn't deserve such things after putting such hard work in over the years. bloody long sentence that innit?
how come the tickets can't be raffled? i like a good raffle as ya know! what about a tombola then, is that breaching the same rules or....? HOOK A DUCK
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Post by youngtats on Jun 28, 2006 20:12:57 GMT
well, not so much "hook a duck" but "hook a ticket". one of them paddling pools full of tickets for the FA Cup final and each contestant has to sit in the pool and attempt to pick up a ticket with their ar_se cheeks - first one to successfully grasp a ticket and get out of the pool without dropping it wins the ticket!!!
what a crackin' idea, we could even get stuart hall to come host the event...... or samantha fox?
if the coal race at gawthorpe can make it onto sky sports then i think the "hook a ticket" affair could be a winner...... needs a catchier name though......
any ideas for a name??
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Post by thomo on Jun 28, 2006 22:53:51 GMT
That's the style tats back to what you're good at slapstick and humour. It makes much more sense than attempting to demonstrate you know what you're on about when you change your tune like..... like someone who changes tune a lot. As for the crying jibe I wouldn't exactly call it crying it's more of being concerned at the way the club has struggled to get exec members over the last few years then like a double decker bus there's 10 of em. The way things are going there'll be no club it appears to be one disaster after another but all I keep hearing is we're waiting for accounts to be ratified so we can ratify 2 sets of accounts at once. why? You were present when our new vice-chairman Martin Voakes accused me of being responsible for the fiasco regarding the unbuilt new stand and the ccj. I think I pretty much answered that one but I think Martin thought he was on to something, I think he really thought that the mess the club are in over that is down solely to me. He said so! If he is capable of coming out with such claptrap as that how much more dross has he been fed how much more drivel have the members been fed. I know I keep repeating this but I still have letters requiring clarification, unanswered for over 10 weeks . Now I know there's a select bunch of members who don't care what I say no matter how true it is but unfortunately there are members and associates of the club who deserve better. Each member is responsible for the debts of the club and I fall into that category, as a paying member I want answers or before very long I will arrive at the conclusion that I'm not going to get any and I will follow the necessary course to blow the whole carry on wide open. I have also heard on the grapevine we were to obtain a new sponsor, "the biggest yet" I sincerely hope it comes to fruition. You seemed to know more about it than the rest of the members and even some of the exec by naming a national bookmakers as the potential sponsor. Now I don't know the ins and outs but IF a National Bookmaker has recently lost a bit of interest in sponsoring Ossett Town, you don't need to be Einstein to work out why. As you well know bookmakers tend to like to make a profit on the uncertainty regarding the outcome of sporting events!!
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Post by richardkelly on Jun 29, 2006 14:11:25 GMT
Other than the fact that the Members and the Exec asked Phil and I to spend a lot of our own time attending meetings, making phonecalls, writing letters etc... all of which was done at our own expense. In terms of time alone that would add up to a considerable amount of investment.
I have no wish to see all that effort and achievement go to the wall because of the selfishness of a few manipulative individuals.
It may or may not be a lost cause, I don't know!
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Post by thomo on Jun 29, 2006 14:45:47 GMT
young tats wrote Another point worth raising is several of the members are only aware of the inept, inaccurate document sent out on 1 June 2006 ridiculously titled "information update for full members" Also if you are right about the numbers viewing this site then several members won't be aware of the offer.
If there are sufficient members on the sight who wish me to post the discussion document regarding the move that I requested be posted to the members . I will post this on the site. I have made a written request to furnish members with the information or alternatively names and addresses of members and I'll post them myself. I have received no reply so would be willing to send the document via e-mail or download link to individuals. send a p.m. and I'll forward it by return
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tosca
Sunday Morning Hoofer
Posts: 1
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Post by tosca on Jul 4, 2006 18:35:10 GMT
where is everybody? can anyone post what happened at the a.g.m.
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